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HONGKONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
fully evading the duty was not wilful; I was not bother."
and he says "it careless and did
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL suggested the addition of the words "with intent to defraud the Government," and the clause as amended by the addition
stand part of the Bill.
It was agreed that clause 5 should stand of the words suggested was passed and
over.
clause 14.
Slight verbal amendment was made to
On clause the HON MR. POLLOCK said I draw attention to the fact that the first sub-section renders an bnstamped document wholly inadmissible in civil proceedings. That is a great departure from the law at home where documents ought to be an appeal to the Governor. can be admitted on payment of a penalty.in-Council from the Collector.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL - That is dealt with in a later clause. If a document or instrument is not stamped as it ought to be, it can be done by special leave.
HON. MR. POLLOCK-It is extra- ordinarily inconvenient. Are the whole proceedings in court to be held up while the party goes to the Collector, and possibly appeals from him to the Gover nor ?
HIS EXCELLENCY-I think those in charge of the case would see that the documents are properly stamped.
Hos. MR. POLLOCK - It seems to me rather cumbersome. It does not follow the wording of the English Act at all. I thing if I had an opportunity of conferring with the Attorney-General we might arrive at a satisfactory word ing. It is a very important point.
THE COLONIAL SECRETARY-I may point out, sir, that it has heup the law of the Colony since 1901. I think it will make many people more careful. That is what it is designed for. Under section 12 of the old Ordinance the Court actually takes possession of the document and bands it over to the Collector.
said it had been suggested by the On clause 18 the Hon. Mг. POLLOCK Chinese Chamber of Commerce that there
It was agreed that the clause should stand over, in order that words to pro- vide this might be inserted.
Clause 17 was also postponed in order that the Attorney-General might draft a different form of words to protect billa of lading attached to drafts.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL announced that clause 21 relating to agreements of sale would be omitted, and consequently subsequent clauses would require to be renumbered.
On clause 23, which now becomes clause 22, the ATTORNEY-GENERAL proposed a new draft clause.
HON. MR. POLLOCK suggested that the clause should stand over to give hon. members an opportunity to consider it.
HON. MR. LANG I should like to suggest that this question of telegraphe transfers be held up for further discus sion. A few minutes before coming int this Chamber the manager of one of the leading banks put certain information into my possession which makes it desir able that there should be no duty until the matter be further gone into. It has been represented to me that in the event
It was agreed that the clause should be of this taxation being brought into force held over.
"
one client alone of this bank would refuse to bring the firm's outstation collections to the Colony. It would mean a loss of twenty-five or thirty million dollars year to the Colony.
On clause 9, the How. MR. LAU CHU PAK said this section was taken from the English Act in which there were the words with intent to defraud Her Majesty." He thought some similar HE EXCELLENCY-How do they pro words should be inserted such as "with pose to finance these transaction. intent to evade the Stamp Ordinance."
HON. MR. POLLOCK-Could that stand over, sir?
+
HON. MR. LANG This money brought in fron outstations to Hongkong to be sent home.
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HONGKONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
HON. MR STEPHEN-I do not agree with the remarks of one of the leading bankers. I do not think there is any chance of the tax having the effect fear Led. It is a perfectly just stamp tax and is applied in other parts of the world. I am perfectly certain the Colony will not suffer.
HIS EXCELLENCY--And you think that the client would not be able to negotiate
his business elsewhere i
—
B
How. MR. STEPHEN. Only to very small extent. He must come to the biggest market, which is Hongkong.
H
EXCELLENCY-I will take the sense of the Council on the question of post- poning the clause or not.
How. MR. POLLOCK--I should be in favour of it being postponed simply be cause we have not had time to consider it.
HIS EXCELLENCY-We have been con- sidering it for some time.
Hon. Mr. some
HON. Mu POLLOCK-The LANG has just brought before us objection.
THE COLONIAL SECRETARY—We have had a very definite reply to the question raised by Mr. Lase,
HON.
MR. STEPHEN-If this clauss is to be allowed to stand over I shall probably not be here when it comes up and I should like to say that in my opin 10s it is a perfectly legitimate source for the Government to go for revenue and cannot possibly in any way effect the interests of the Colony.
HON. ME. POLLOCK-I was not, of course, disputing the hon. member's know- ledge of the effect of the transaction gen- erally. I only wanted to know the specific arguments on the subject.
HIS EXCELLENCY-Has the hon. mem- her who moved that this clause should stand over any other material to show that this enormous body of business would be dealt with elsewhere and that for the sake of ten cents on every $500 a man would take the chance of the market in thess other places.
How. MR. LANG-I have not bad time to go deeply into the matter with
49
the banker who supplied, me with the information. I mentioned it to the Hon. Mr. STEPHEN and he was inclined to dis- credit what my informant said.
THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that he had heard the same thing. Some business might be lost to the Colony. If the busi- Gems came to Hongkong we would get the duty and if it did not we would not. which could not be drivan away and on There was a large volume of busines8
which they would get duty.
HIS EXCELLENCY remarked that they would not be driving it away if it could not be financed out of the Colony.
would like time to consider it but would HON. MR. HO FOOK said that he
not be in the Colony when the Bill came forward again.
The question was put to the vote and His EXCELLENCY declared that the "ayes" bad it, seven members having voted in favour of passing the clause and six in favour of postponement.
HIS EXCELLENCY-Clause 27 standa part of the Bill.
Ou clause 29 the ATTORNEY GENERAL moved that the clause be omitted.
On clause 41 the ATTORNEY-GENERAL said a question bad arisen on this clause regarding the words "who knowingly is party to the failure to stamp." It had been suggested that the wording was not strong enough and did not imply any guilty knowledge or guilty intent on the part of the person failing to do certain things and that wording should be used such as that in the Companies Ordinance involving intention to default.
215
It was agreed that the clause should. stand over for a form of words to be considered.
On clause 42, renumbered 40, the ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that the clause be omitted and this was agreed to,
On clause 43, renumbered 40, the Hox. Ma LANG drew attention to the resolu- tion of the Chamber of Commerce that it is unnecessarily inquisitorial and should be redrafted in a modified form."" He asked that it be postponed for re- drafting.
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